Slim has been chatting with me and proposed I offered the conversation to the ANW community. The forum seems the obvious choice. Here are Slim's thoughts:

"I have a question. You mentioned in the post you sent me that naturist resorts/campgrounds are closing way too often. Has anyone looked into why? I have a couple of ideas why this is happening. Keep in mind, I’m in the south eastern part of the U.S. So, it may be different in other areas.

1) Cost of land

       Land prices have gone way up due to many factors. Development is probably the most notable. To find affordable acreage, one would have to go to locations that are too far from major cities.

2) Current owners are aging

       I’ve read and have seen how a naturist resort or campground closes down when the current owner can no longer run a place, Or they pass away and whoever inherited it wants nothing to do with it.

3) Lack of profit

       Whether one likes it or not, it’s still a business. I believe many close down because it’s hard to make a living owning a naturist resort/campground. Especially in areas that aren’t warm year round. I’ve also seen how some owners have tried to do it, but they weren’t very business minded.

 There was a time when there were as many as 4 naturist/nudist campgrounds in North Georgia alone. Now, there are only 3. Two of them are 21 and over only. One of them caters to Libertines (A.K.A swingers). The other one I’ve heard is not so much, but some of it’s activities and atmosphere I wouldn’t call naturist.

I’m curious to know what you guys think about this. Also, feel free to post this with the rest of the folks in ANW. I’d love to hear their thoughts as well."

So what do you think - why do clubs, campsites and other venues close? Is there anything that can be done? 

The other side of the coin is why do some manage to stay going? What lessons can be learnt from their example? 

How about starting a new venture or club? How do they ensure that they do not fold a few years later? 

This is not the easiest of questions to answer as from the things we have heard and read, there are a great many and varied reasons for this, although you state age being probably the most significant.

We have no idea how it works in the States, and in UK we have not visited a camp or club ground as yet, but we do talk, and if others are correct, they have reported a few things to us.

For us personally our biggest problem is placement, simply put they are either too far away or difficult to get to, as we have to use a network of roads that tend to always be congested, which makes our journey time to them far longer than it should be. The result of that is that we get less time there than we would wish to, before having to set off back home, and that leads into our next point.

Cost: Membership is not cheap, and for us not something we can currently afford, add that to the above, and then we are in a situation where the cost of the club far exceeds the return, we get for our money due to limited time there. The answer to our problem would be a more localised club, but again, the cost of setting one up due to land prices is a big deterrent to anyone who wish to set one up.

Membership fees are much higher than many average naturists can afford, we understand the high utility and maintenance costs of clubs and camps, and the pressures they face, and to a degree that has to be passed on to the members or guests, which does result in higher fees if the membership is low, so the key to success is wider appeal so how does one do that?

From what we have noted, clubs have moved in two distinct directions, the first being traditional rules. It appears many of the rules within some naturist organisations have to a degree put people off, the most obvious being all single women are welcome, but single males are limited.

There are a lot of men who are displaced within naturism by this rule, as it does have detrimental effects across the whole spectrum of males, such as if a male becomes widowed or divorced, he becomes single and falls foul of the rules, and goes from an active participant, to excluded. It is a fact that there is a larger percentage of males than females in naturism, but we do not completely agree that it is reason many females are not entering naturism, which is why men are excluded. With camps offering entrance to females openly, there is no reason for females to fear joining in, and yet they don’t.

Many of the clubs that exclude single men, are also excluding revenue, and we feel men are the most likely to help muck in and help around the place, so in a sense, many naturist establishments are shooting themselves in the foot, and not making the most of a cheap resource that would actually help lower the costs of maintenance of their property. There are a lot of naturists who are carpenters, roofers, electricians, and plumbers, they may be single, but they bring a lot of skills to the table when entering a club.

Bare Oaks in Canada is thriving because it understands that and has a policy that polices and encourages good behaviour, they also have an area which is female only, so if a female feels a little overwhelmed, she can enter a male free space to adjust. That to us makes common sense, and it is proving to be effective, other clubs could learn from that. It stands to reason, if someone behaves improperly, they are removed and banned, but at least they get the benefit of the doubt and are given a chance to be a part of a club, instead of being completely excluded due to their gender.

Adult Only: This is becoming a big thing, and it also kills smaller venues, as it excludes families. Families are the most vital part of any club or venue, and yet we see more and more places turning them away for more grown-up activities. We also feel this is another huge contributing factor in the rise of male naturists and the decline of females within naturism, many women are mothers, leading to the failings of some venues. We feel it is the largest fundamental problem in naturism today, and as a family we refuse to visit anywhere that is advertised as adult only, as we will not leave the children. An adult only policy excludes the very adults who are most willing to pay, because we will pay to visit any venue that allows our children. Sadly, there are too few.

Strict rules: We have heard quite a few strange rules about places, one club that appalled us demanded all members were shaven downstairs, and so it was a big nope, and we declined to visit. We have heard of a club that demands full nudity always, which okay, we can do that, but we also feel that it is a deterrent to new people who maybe would ease into a place if it was clothing optional to start with. Most people accept the full nudity rules with pools, but the rest of the grounds? Surely newcomers can wear a sarong or top to start with. We know of three people who have lost their nerve because they wanted to get a feel for it first, and the rules prevented that, and so they have remained home naturists.

Libertines. There is always talk of libertines buying out old naturist facilities and changing the clubs from pure naturism to libertine. The rise of the libertine movement has impacted naturism, the most obvious case being Cap’D’Age. It’s rise has been so fast, that Libertine activity has invaded most of the complex, drawing negative attention that most naturists do not want. We have spoken to one person who still goes who is strictly a naturist, but even they admitted, they remain in their own private dwelling after evening arrives.

From what we can gather, certain places have turned a blind eye to it in small parts of their camps, and as a result soon found the word was out and their venues have been swamped removing valuable places for ordinary naturists, so if a venue wants strictly naturist visitors, they must stamp out all libertine activities, or suffer losing to libertine activity.

Secrecy: There is far too much skulking going on behind high trees and fences. The trend to be reclusive breeds suspicion, and naturism needs to find its voice instead of a muffled whisper. Clubs, societies and venues need to come out from behind the hedges and talk more about their safe, none sexual lifestyles. Too many are hiding, afraid to admit they prefer a clothes free life. As naturists, we need to start opening up more and having conversations so that people can hear our side of things. Too much damage has been done to naturism by staying silent, most clubs could fix this with more open advertising and adding blogs to their websites to have ways in which people can read about their clubs and understand the normal social none sexual aspects of naturism. One of the biggest misconceptions with the public is that they do not get to find out about naturism so they have no hope of understanding it, and so the rumours and misinformation run rife. A simple blog on a website can fix that.

Activities: A lot of camps are suffering lower numbers due to ageing, and yet find it hard to attract the young who would bring vital energy and cash to their venues. Simply put, the young do not want to garden, or play miniten and boules. To a degree this has created a culture clash, the current residents want quiet, and the youth are lively and looking for fun activities which most settled older member have no wish to tolerate. This will not change with the current mindsets of some clubs, and so their decline is inevitable.

Clubs and events need to modernise or die. They need to look at broader activities, open their doors to more members including single males, which will in turn generate greater revenues and lower the cost per head. The strict 1950’s mindset and rule books need modernising, and we would say that a few clothing optional days would help go a long way to resolving that. The more information that is available, and the more the public hear, the faster naturism will become tolerated leading to an attitude of acceptance.

I feel RnR pretty much covered it above; but I'll put in my little bit, based on my limited access to clubs and the long period of time since I've been to one. 
When we were in Texas we visited half a dozen clubs. Only two of them were worthy of a return visit. One, primarily because it was close to us and even though they didn't have much going activity wise, it was cozy and shaded from the Texas heat, and a nice quiet place to relax.  The other was more active, more up-to-date, and attracted many younger people, because it had volleyball courts, jogging trails, indoor pool/ping pong tables, and a snack bar.

Others that we went to, were run down, patronized by old people who stayed to themselves, reading novels or sunbathing but not interacting much at all, and the facilities were sparse. One that we went to had not much more than a pool. No shade anywhere, and very few people. In fact, we only saw two or three guys hanging around (20's) and as soon as we got in the pool, there was suddenly half a dozen guys in it also, and they were all staring at my wife. So, after about 5 minutes of wading, we got out and left.

Now that we are in Washington state, the only venue I can find is a 2.5 hour drive from here, over a mountain pass (which can be spooky to drive over during certain months.  We will never go there, because when I researched them I discovered that although it is a large club, with cabins and RV hookups, activities for the kids and adults alike, cafeteria, scheduled events and the whole works, they will let you visit once, paying a day rate, but after that you must become a member and pay an annual rate (not cheap), which would require attending there quite often in order to make it worth the money. We just would not have the time or inclination to frequently make that trip.

So, those are my observations. How to keep a club open and thriving?  Maintenance of grounds and facilities, friendly demeanor, friendly and reasonable rules, available events and activities, atmosphere that discourages creeps. 

Thanks for all the above thought Rob. 

It would be great to hear the thoughts of people who are very much involved in a club. 

From the outside looking in I would say that there is too much of a clique feel to naturism. Naturists are a wonderful and friendly group yet there is a feeling that comes from some bodies, clubs and groups that suggests a less than welcoming atmosphere. Simply put if you enter room and everyone is where a red hat and you are not you feel excluded. There is a lot of subconsious red hat wearing in naturist circles and it feels very hard to become part of that and feel welcome. It is not just that naturism is aging but also there is a feeling that new people are just not welcome. Naturism is doing something seriously wrong in making something that is supposed to be about equality and no barriers appear to be so very closed off. 

People are not as positive about joining clubs now as they used to be so I wonder if a certain amount of re-imagining is required. The campsite Anna and I used a few times had people who bought season tickets and visited all summer long and knew lots of people - so it felt in some ways like a club. But new people came and went and it wasn't a club. But everyone was lovely and just enjoyed hanging around, playing by the pool, sharing meals together and letting their children play. Maybe it is time for clubs to rebrand as camping clubs - open to visitors, open to season ticket holders, open to life members and open to people who want to get more involved, get on the board etc - and the whole thing being less intimidating. The board have to appear to be one of the gang and not standing over everyone tutting. Does this happen? I do not know but I think people fear that it may. People should be offered affordable tiers into these clubs and it feel like they are basically having fun first and foremost. It would be great to hear some first hand experiences. 

Everyone should be welcome, people should be firmly rejected only because of bad behaviour. Families need to be put to the front as this will do the best for naturism and for the club. I would want to have other children on a club that I joined - as I would want my sons to make friends - and that would be the most important part of my decision. 

People need to completely steer clear of places like Cap. I know genuine naturists still go but is there nbot a whole world of other choices. Yes Cap was famous but is it really that amazing that people still go despite the sexual connections, the wholesale selling out of naturism and having to stay locked up at night? 

The sad thing is clubs that turn libertine often realise there is little future in it and end up going dressed rather than returning to naturism. I think the reason is that they realise that people's interest soon wavers - why would you want to keep going back year after year - as you age or have children etc. Clubhave a really shelf life for decades and even  generations of loyal support. The big question is that right now are they doing enough to find the new generations. 

Cost are no doubt a big issue. How could anyone in the UK afford to buy some land and turn it into a campsite or club? It is beyond my imagination. If you maybe inherit some land that you have long held. I think that is why so many campsites in the UK are run as an extra income by farmers who have owned the land for generations. 

Rob is so right about secrecy. If you are part of a club get a representative of the club onto ANW and get them communicating: show what you are doing, share your venue, introduce us to your events and members and most importantly be human. If we feel that the clubs are run by human beings that we are talking with on ANW, making friends with and asking questions to then we will realise the clubs can also be trusted.  The most vital part of getting people to want to join a club is making them believe that they we like the people they meet there. ANW offers a perfect opportunity to do that. It is why we decided when building the site that people who own venues, clubs etc and want to promote on ANW do so also by having profiles and being part of the community. It is about connecting and building trust, breaking down barriers and being real.      

We believe that finances are a huge factor to the success of resorts in the US. The two resorts Lynn and I frequent are Laguna del Sol and Mira Vista. Laguna del Sol is about 20 miles east of Sacramento, CA, which is a 3 hour drive, south of our ranch. Mira Vista is on the west side of Tucson, AZ, so it requires us to take a plane flight. We are not "members" of these resorts, because it doesn't make financial sence. At Laguna del Sol, the "Gold" family membership costs $1,189.50 for new members and $889.50 annually, for renewing members. The benefit is that Gold members do not pay a day use fee, which is currently $29.00 for AANR members. Visitors still need to pay for camping sights, RV sites, Park Models or Rooms. Lynn and I would have to visit at least 16 days per year, for the membership option to make sence. We probably visit half that amount.

Both properties are owned by the Schell family. My opinion regarding the ongoing success of these resorts, is that both properties have year-round, full-time residents. Laguna del Sol residents live in singlewide (mostly) mobile homes, while Mira Vista residents have 65 condominium units around the resort. The residents afford the properties an ongoing income stream, which camp sites (especially seasonal campsites) don't have.